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quidditian Posts: 46
3/6/2010
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Hi David -- I've been trying to post the following in the comment section of the post you made today, but it's just hourglassing and hourglassing, and giving me no love...
Hi there -- I'm THRILLED to find your site, and look forward to exploring it. I just returned from my first trip to Anza, am and painfully in love with the place...and the fact that there seems to be no end to the wonderful things to see. I've always had an affinity for both the desert *and* native american cultures, but I'm heat-intolerant (whiny) and pretty much a hermit, so I never really go out to explore. This was an incredibly fulfilling whim; I felt as though my body was viscerally drinking in the perfect beauty and isolation of the landscape.
While there, I didn't have internet access, but built up a million questions, so now I'm a googling madwoman. One thing is sort of difficult to find anything on -- I went to see the morteros (and later pictographs) yesterday, and noticed something odd, but pretty obviously naturally occurring in the mortero area...perfect lines of quartz embedded along the tops of rocks and sometimes ground...almost like someone in the sky was drizzling icing on a cake.
Do you by any chance have any idea what causes this? I'm the world's worst photographer, but here are some pics...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9702179@N08/4412269317/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9702179@N08/4413037900/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9702179@N08/4413037732/
Thanks!
Cayenne
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quidditian Posts: 46
3/6/2010
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oopsy...sorry -- I was addressing this to The Keeper of The Blog (or anyone, really)...just realized that I used the wrong mname. See? My little four day adventure has worn me out...
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surfponto Administrator Posts: 1362
3/7/2010
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Hi Cayenne,
Welcome to the forum. Sound like you had a great trip and will be back  . There are so many beautiful places to explore out in Anza Borrego.
Curious where you saw those cool rocks?
From what I have read, quartz can be deposited between rocks and fissures by seeping water.
My educated guess is that it takes a very long time for this to occur.
Thanks for the heads up on the comments section. I need to fix that
Bob
quidditian wrote:
Hi David -- I've been trying to post the following in the comment section of the post you made today, but it's just hourglassing and hourglassing, and giving me no love...
Hi there -- I'm THRILLED to find your site, and look forward to exploring it. I just returned from my first trip to Anza, am and painfully in love with the place...and the fact that there seems to be no end to the wonderful things to see. I've always had an affinity for both the desert *and* native american cultures, but I'm heat-intolerant (whiny) and pretty much a hermit, so I never really go out to explore. This was an incredibly fulfilling whim; I felt as though my body was viscerally drinking in the perfect beauty and isolation of the landscape.
While there, I didn't have internet access, but built up a million questions, so now I'm a googling madwoman. One thing is sort of difficult to find anything on -- I went to see the morteros (and later pictographs) yesterday, and noticed something odd, but pretty obviously naturally occurring in the mortero area...perfect lines of quartz embedded along the tops of rocks and sometimes ground...almost like someone in the sky was drizzling icing on a cake.
Do you by any chance have any idea what causes this? I'm the world's worst photographer, but here are some pics...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9702179@N08/4412269317/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9702179@N08/4413037900/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9702179@N08/4413037732/
Thanks!
Cayenne
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https://www.anzaborrego.net/
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hikerdmb Posts: 423
3/7/2010
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Cayenne,
I'm not the person running this forum, that would be Bob, he already responded to you. I am just a lover of the desert and have been posting with the hope that more people will join in.
As for your question...if I remember from college Geology class many moons ago, the thing you are looking at in your picture is a dike or maybe it is dyke. It is igneous rock that has intruded into the rock around it. I think it happens way under the earth when molten rock (the future dike) finds a small crack or cracks and forces its way in. But again, it has been a while since I was in that class so you might find more info somewhere else about it. But I am pretty sure it is a dike.
David
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quidditian Posts: 46
3/7/2010
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Thanks for creating the forum -- I'll probably be plaguing you (et al) with more random questions as they come to mind, but it's great to know there's a wealth of knowledge here!
Eventually I'm going to write a trip update. Not only would I like to write it out for the sake of sending it to friends so they can ridicule me, but I think it may amuse/appall people who frequent this forum. If nothing else, my tale is a lesson in not thinking oneself impervious to "bad things" happening. Hint: Out-of-shape, technophobic 40 year old recluse in an old sedan heads out alone for desert adventure. I was like "Private Benjamin" of the desert.
So the rocks were in Blair Valley -- where the state park has the historic sign for the morteros -- then one walks a very short distance to the big beautiful boulders that have morteros tucked away in them. The quartz phenomenon was pretty pervasive in that area. I think most surprising was the first pic where it shows the "line" on the ground. Weird enough to see it on the rocks themselves, but very strange along the ground. Of course, I'd love to have sort of picked around it to see how far down in the sand it went (I'm amazed it hasn't been disturbed by foot traffic -- maybe it's just on the top of a big rock buried underground, thus keeping it somewhat stable? Hmmmm...) As a former wanna-be archaeologist, I know to keep my hands to myself, so I didn't investigate.
When I moved on to the pictograph area further down, I don't think I saw the quartz lines on any of the rocks around there...and it's what, maybe a mile(ish) away?
Speaking of things being disturbed...I was amazed the pictographs are sitting there unprotected. I mean, that's certainly the most moving way to view them, but I lived in Wyoming for a year after college, and they have the petroglyph sites at Castle Gardens completely cordoned off behind fencing (one could see evidence of spray paint in places on the glyphs, which tended to leave one with no faith in humanity). I suppose it's a testament to human nobility that the pictographs can exist without damage in their natural state...it's also makes one worry a little. It only takes one a**hole to come along and destroy...
Okay, enough babbling for now. The comment "issue" on your blog could have been total user error...as noted, I'm a technomoron. :]
Cayenne
<em>edited by quidditian on 3/7/2010</em>
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quidditian Posts: 46
3/7/2010
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Hey David -- I see you posted a reply while I was yammering -- thanks for the lead...I'll sniff it out. I actually did say aloud to myself when I was out there "this place is a geologist's dream." I'm so irritated that pictures can't begin to capture the palette of color out there. I should find a geologist to go with next time...there were so many funky and wonderful things going on with the rocks...
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surfponto Administrator Posts: 1362
3/7/2010
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Hey Cayenne,
You write very well. I am sure any trip report you wrote would be interesting to read.
Sounds like you are hooked and I for-see many ADSP camping trips in your future. 
With regards to the pictographs near Blair Valley. I agree that is amazing they are just accessible to everybody who can hike the short distance.
The pictographs at Piedras Grandes have not fared so well and were apparently destroyed (almost) by a careless campfire.
I believe that is one of the reasons they closed that area off to vehicle traffic.
No you are not a techno-moron with regards to the comments section. I need to update the BLOG software but I am a little worried I will mess something else up.
Also I notice there is an issue with picture uploads on the forum.
Need to fix that also.
Thanks for the post
Bob
quidditian wrote:
Thanks for creating the forum -- I'll probably be plaguing you (et al) with more random questions as they come to mind, but it's great to know there's a wealth of knowledge here!
Eventually I'm going to write a trip update. Not only would I like to write it out for the sake of sending it to friends so they can ridicule me, but I think it may amuse/appall people who frequent this forum. If nothing else, my tale is a lesson in not thinking oneself impervious to "bad things" happening. Hint: Out-of-shape, technophobic 40 year old recluse in an old sedan heads out alone for desert adventure. I was like "Private Benjamin" of the desert.
So the rocks were in Blair Valley -- where the state park has the historic sign for the morteros -- then one walks a very short distance to the big beautiful boulders that have morteros tucked away in them. The quartz phenomenon was pretty pervasive in that area. I think most surprising was the first pic where it shows the "line" on the ground. Weird enough to see it on the rocks themselves, but very strange along the ground. Of course, I'd love to have sort of picked around it to see how far down in the sand it went (I'm amazed it hasn't been disturbed by foot traffic -- maybe it's just on the top of a big rock buried underground, thus keeping it somewhat stable? Hmmmm...) As a former wanna-be archaeologist, I know to keep my hands to myself, so I didn't investigate.
When I moved on to the pictograph area further down, I don't think I saw the quartz lines on any of the rocks around there...and it's what, maybe a mile(ish) away?
Speaking of things being disturbed...I was amazed the pictographs are sitting there unprotected. I mean, that's certainly the most moving way to view them, but I lived in Wyoming for a year after college, and they have the petroglyph sites at Castle Gardens completely cordoned off behind fencing (one could see evidence of spray paint in places on the glyphs, which tended to leave one with no faith in humanity). I suppose it's a testament to human nobility that the pictographs can exist without damage in their natural state...it's also makes one worry a little. It only takes one a**hole to come along ant destroy...
Okay, enough babbling for now. The comment "issue" on your blog could have been total user error...as noted, I'm a technomoron. :]
Cayenne
<em>edited by surfponto on 3/7/2010</em>
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https://www.anzaborrego.net/
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quidditian Posts: 46
3/7/2010
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Thank you -- you're kind. You may eat your words when you see the novella I just wrote as an update. :] PLEASE don't feel like you have to read it. It's sort of self-serving as a way to document my little experience...
That's a flippin' gorgeous pic...could be an abstract painting, nicely picking up the texture and dimension.
It's perplexing... I went around and around last night about the issue of preservation of these things. My experience at Castle Gardens was...um...sixteen years ago, and the status may be better or worse at this point. It made my heart ache to see this ugly man-made structure around the carvings, but I also fully understood the need for it to be there. My misanthropic tendencies are only fueled when I realize how utterly clueless, if not downright malicious people can be... and the pictographs are even more fragile than petroglyphys, I would assume.
Which brings to mind another point to google: I wonder what sort of pigments they used for the pictographs. Even if only 200 years old, the elements are extreme, and there's no modern paint equivalent I know of that would hold up to the the elements -- especially given the ultimate fragility of the "rock canvas". I'm fascinated by contemporary painters who make their own pigments (I think there are maybe two such people currently alive), but I haven't much looked into the logistics of it...seems like an overwhelming endeavor.
Camping -- don't count on it -- I wish it were easy for me. Alas, having found the creepy little affordable hotel I love, I hope to return often enough that they'll eventually name one of the rooms "The Cayenne Suite." After I die/retire, I hope to haunt the place unimpeded by physicality. Maybe establish a little B&B on Ghost Mountain. :o <---scary ghost
<em>edited by quidditian on 3/8/2010</em>
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quidditian Posts: 46
3/8/2010
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Okay, finally posted the pics of quartz lines for my best friend (and living encyclopedia), and gave him David's theory. He wrote:
Well, that seems plausible. When I saw them, it made be think of "friendship rocks" that have a line running through them, found in Maine. I've no clue how they are formed, so will have consult my trusty, dusty wikipedia.
In the next email, he said:
That was a bust, I'm going with that guy's theory.
Then he sent this link. It seems that your memory from "many moons ago" is perfectly in tact, David. :]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dike_%28geology%29
Thanks much!
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surfponto Administrator Posts: 1362
3/8/2010
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OK David,
You win. My theory about water was just that.. a theory.
Seems you were actually paying attention in your college Geo class unlike me.
Bob
quidditian wrote:
Okay, finally posted the pics of quartz lines for my best friend (and living encyclopedia), and gave him David's theory. He wrote:
Well, that seems plausible. When I saw them, it made be think of "friendship rocks" that have a line running through them, found in Maine. I've no clue how they are formed, so will have consult my trusty, dusty wikipedia.
In the next email, he said:
That was a bust, I'm going with that guy's theory.
Then he sent this link. It seems that your memory from "many moons ago" is perfectly in tact, David. :]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dike_%28geology%29
Thanks much!
<em>edited by surfponto on 3/8/2010</em>
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https://www.anzaborrego.net/
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surfponto Administrator Posts: 1362
3/8/2010
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What is even more perplexing is the "Blue Sun" pictograph at Indian Hill.
We can't figure out how the Kumeyaay artists were able to come up with the color blue from what was available?.
quidditian wrote:
Thank you -- you're kind. You may eat your words when you see the novella I just wrote as an update. :] PLEASE don't feel like you have to read it. It's sort of self-serving as a way to document my little experience...
That's a flippin' gorgeous pic...could be an abstract painting, nicely picking up the texture and dimension.
It's perplexing... I went around and around last night about the issue of preservation of these things. My experience at Castle Gardens was...um...sixteen years ago, and the status may be better or worse at this point. It made my heart ache to see this ugly man-made structure around the carvings, but I also fully understood the need for it to be there. My misanthropic tendencies are only fueled when I realize how utterly clueless, if not downright malicious people can be... and the pictographs are even more fragile than petroglyphys, I would assume.
Which brings to mind another point to google: I wonder what sort of pigments they used for the pictographs. Even if only 200 years old, the elements are extreme, and there's no modern paint equivalent I know of that would hold up to the the elements -- especially given the ultimate fragility of the "rock canvas". I'm fascinated by contemporary painters who make their own pigments (I think there are maybe two such people currently alive), but I haven't much looked into the logistics of it...seems like an overwhelming endeavor.
Camping -- don't count on it -- I wish it were easy for me. Alas, having found the creepy little affordable hotel I love, I hope to return often enough that they'll eventually name one of the rooms "The Cayenne Suite." After I die/retire, I hope to haunt the place unimpeded by physicality. Maybe establish a little B&B on Ghost Mountain. :o <---scary ghost
edited by quidditian on 3/8/2010
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https://www.anzaborrego.net/
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quidditian Posts: 46
3/8/2010
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Hmmmmm...found this in this link: http://www.kumeyaay.info/indian_bows_arrows.html
"This fully-researched book will include all facets of Native California pigments and paint, including physical, social, spiritual — in great detail — and will reveal about how the Indians turned yellow pigment red, and how the aborigines made blue from white gypsum and black charcoal, and it will give many other recipes for Indian paint.
The book will also discuss the origin of CAVE ART in California and will include the latest atomic accelerator testing of the ancient pigments used by California Indians for eons."
Also while tooling around looking for pigment-making info, ran across this guy, who has some fascinating theories that the pictographs (at least some of them) may not have had their origins as art, but as maps to shelter and water. He has to make some pretty large leaps of faith and imagination, but it's an interesting theory, and he doesn't seem to be a whack-job. :]
http://www.humancafe.com/discus/messages/6/41.html#POST3981
And he and his friend think that the light scalloping on this rock (what I thought were shallow morteros) were a calendar. I wish I'd known all of this before I went out there!
http://picasaweb.google.com/Quidditian/AnzaBorrego33103610#5446087321899249570
Groovy stuff.
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surfponto Administrator Posts: 1362
3/9/2010
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Great links Cayenne,
Thanks. His website is very interesting.
Thanks for answering that.
Bob
quidditian wrote:
Hmmmmm...found this in this link: http://www.kumeyaay.info/indian_bows_arrows.html
"This fully-researched book will include all facets of Native California pigments and paint, including physical, social, spiritual — in great detail — and will reveal about how the Indians turned yellow pigment red, and how the aborigines made blue from white gypsum and black charcoal, and it will give many other recipes for Indian paint.
The book will also discuss the origin of CAVE ART in California and will include the latest atomic accelerator testing of the ancient pigments used by California Indians for eons."
Also while tooling around looking for pigment-making info, ran across this guy, who has some fascinating theories that the pictographs (at least some of them) may not have had their origins as art, but as maps to shelter and water. He has to make some pretty large leaps of faith and imagination, but it's an interesting theory, and he doesn't seem to be a whack-job. :]
http://www.humancafe.com/discus/messages/6/41.html#POST3981
And he and his friend think that the light scalloping on this rock (what I thought were shallow morteros) were a calendar. I wish I'd known all of this before I went out there!
http://picasaweb.google.com/Quidditian/AnzaBorrego33103610#5446087321899249570
Groovy stuff.
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https://www.anzaborrego.net/
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