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anutami Posts: 491
2/20/2012
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Did a quick trip with my son Brett to Mortero Palms. I wanted to get and idea of how this windfarm project is going to impact the area.
Brett snapping a photo of this serene view, Mortero Palms Rd. looking east towards Ocotillo
It sounds like pretty soon this will be a sea of turbines
Does anyone know what this is?
close up
Sunday had some crazy wind...It blew Brett over a couple of times
looking up the canyon, the palms are above the saddle
looking east on top of the saddle
small Indian cave, notice the mortero
Is that some yoni art? the wind almost sent Brett tumbling
cool view
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surfponto Administrator Posts: 1362
2/20/2012
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Looks like a great trip.
How were the temperatures? Your son is really bundled up.
That first view is dead on for where the Ocotillo Express Turbines would go. Sucks big time. 
That circle thing is cool. Guessing it was done by some campers but I don't really know.
Was that near Piedras Grandes?
Bob
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https://www.anzaborrego.net/
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dsefcik Administrator Posts: 2609
2/20/2012
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pretty sure that is the "wagon wheel", i have heard of it but never seen it. if so, it is native american made. people need to realize how vast the the impact they have on the desert is, you can find artifacts almost everywhere in the desert.....nice find...
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http://www.sefcik.com
http://www.darensefcik.com
http://www.carrizogorge.com
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surfponto Administrator Posts: 1362
2/20/2012
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Wow that is awesome !
I had not heard of that.
Time to start going through those old Desert Magazines you sent me the link for. 
Bob
dsefcik wrote:
pretty sure that is the "wagon wheel", i have heard of it but never seen it. if so, it is native american made. people need to realize how vast the the impact they have on the desert is, you can find artifacts almost everywhere in the desert.....nice find...
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https://www.anzaborrego.net/
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anutami Posts: 491
2/20/2012
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The temps were nice 60's, but the windchill factor brought them way down. My kids seem to get cold very easy.
I was closer to mortero palms on the find. I was skeptical about campers making the design because there were so many pottery schards and the rocks in the circle were nowhere around the area. They must have been carried there from quite a ways away. Also, the rocks were so clean. It looks like it has been there a long time. If it is native American park rangers need to put a sign because it is so close to the road. My son almost started picking up some of the cool rocks since he is the one who first found it. He is so used to rock hounding out there. Luckily I caught him in time and reminded him he had to just look and not touch. Good thing he is starting to love taking pictures. He filled up about 1gb of pictures on the wheel.
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ziphius Posts: 911
2/21/2012
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That looks like a great trip that you and your son had! The mysterious ground circle with quartz and pottery shards is very interesting. Perhaps one of the ABDSP rangers might know by looking at the photo what exactly it is? Great find.  - Jim
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http://www.coyotelearning.org
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surfponto Administrator Posts: 1362
2/21/2012
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Good idea
Could forward picture to Mark Jorgensen.
Bob
ziphius wrote:
That looks like a great trip that you and your son had! The mysterious ground circle with quartz and pottery shards is very interesting. Perhaps one of the ABDSP rangers might know by looking at the photo what exactly it is? Great find. - Jim
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https://www.anzaborrego.net/
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dsefcik Administrator Posts: 2609
2/22/2012
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I showed the photo to someone who knows about the wagon wheel and they said that is not it...sorry..but a nice find anyway! So I guess the hunt is still on for what it's origin is.
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http://www.sefcik.com
http://www.darensefcik.com
http://www.carrizogorge.com
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X EAGLE 23 X Posts: 16
2/22/2012
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Yeah, that's not the wagon wheel, it looks like it could be some sort of calendrical or orientation marker. Does it seem the linear rocks are pointed in any particular direction? The large amount of pottery in the circle is strange too. Awesome find!
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anutami Posts: 491
2/23/2012
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X EAGLE 23 X wrote:
Yeah, that's not the wagon wheel, it looks like it could be some sort of calendrical or orientation marker. Does it seem the linear rocks are pointed in any particular direction? The large amount of pottery in the circle is strange too. Awesome find!
I am pretty sure the linear rocks point north, south, east and west, but not sure if they are dead on. I did not check it with my compass and should have. I also should have tried to count the rocks in the circle to see if they are near the calendar year. I guess I could pull up some of my photos and try and count.
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X EAGLE 23 X Posts: 16
3/2/2012
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anutami wrote:
I am pretty sure the linear rocks point north, south, east and west, but not sure if they are dead on. I did not check it with my compass and should have. I also should have tried to count the rocks in the circle to see if they are near the calendar year. I guess I could pull up some of my photos and try and count.
The fact that many of the rocks are half buried in the ground support the fact that this is quite old and probably done by Native Americans. The Kumeyaay did have a sense of the cardinal directions, so they quite possibly could point in those directions. But they did not have a calendar year like ours, instead they had a 2 part 6 months (lunar) calendar. This alignment probably served as some sort of ritual or religious ceremony.
It's interesting to note that this has some similarities with the 'spoked-wheel' rock alignment such as pottery spread within the alignment and quartz rock (which was a 'powerful' rock) being used in its construction. Here's a pic of the spoked-wheel:
[IMG]http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae261/Menvielle/IMAG0114.jpg[/IMG]
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dsefcik Administrator Posts: 2609
3/2/2012
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x eagle, do you have any more info about the history or meaning of the wagon wheel?
it looks like it is located next to a fairly large runoff, like it may not have much time left as the soil erodes.
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http://www.sefcik.com
http://www.darensefcik.com
http://www.carrizogorge.com
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X EAGLE 23 X Posts: 16
3/3/2012
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My understanding is that the history of it is somewhat up in the air and puzzling. While the general design is somewhat common in rock art (pictographs and petriglyphs), the nearest rock alignment is found way down on some island in the Gulf of California. Of course that simply means we haven't found any nearer alignments, it doesn't mean they aren't out there.
The likely meaning of it is that it was a ritual or religious site. The Kumeyaay believed quartz had special powers (if you've ever rubbed two pieces together you know why haha) and so it's obvious association with both these rock alignments points to some sort of ritual/religious significance. I know some have suggested each 'spoke' is a representation: one for each direction (north south east west); one for Mother Earth; one for Father Sky; one for all living things. But I think that could be stretching it a bit too far and connecting dots without enough evidence. I think the truth is, we just don't know what exactly it was or why it was constructed.
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dsefcik Administrator Posts: 2609
3/23/2012
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Here is a great article about Ocotillo and the wind energy project we trying to stop, it has a nice a photo of the spoke wheel geoglyph.
http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/9104
If you haven't already signed the petition you can do so now here http://www.change.org/petitions/say-no-to-the-ocotillo-wind-energy-facility-project
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http://www.sefcik.com
http://www.darensefcik.com
http://www.carrizogorge.com
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mrkmc Posts: 87
3/23/2012
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Anyone ever seen this in person? Looks interesting.
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dsefcik Administrator Posts: 2609
3/30/2012
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I have not but they are in Blythe not too far away and they are open to visitors
http://www.blytheareachamberofcommerce.com/intag.htm
mrkmc wrote:
Anyone ever seen this in person? Looks interesting.
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http://www.sefcik.com
http://www.darensefcik.com
http://www.carrizogorge.com
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