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rockhopper wrote:

Nice trip report. Thank full for the heavy rains last 2 years to keep the creeks flowing ( Less carrying water ) in the back country. My brother and I climbed up the back side of Palomar mtn. through heavy coastal oak brush and were covered in ticks. Got em' off thankfully. Had to check every 5 minutes. Not so lucky on the PCT section near hwy 74. :-0 Bush wacking does have it's rewards though :-)
edited by rockhopper on 1/30/2020

I do love to see water flow in these seasonal creeks.

Were you doing Eagle Crag? Also do you treat your clothes? I have been spraying mine with Sawyer Permethrin. On this hike it was 3 weeks out of the 6 week claimed lifespan. I watched a tick crawl about 18" before it started getting a bit funny and then a slight shake knocked him off. I would touch up spray all my stuff before each hike knowing how thick the ticks are now.

I have never hiked out here. Any recommendations?

Is the photo from the east or west? I remember the main trail being from the east and very, very, long. Haven't been out there yet but would like to.

rockhopper, is the reliable water source Agua Alta? I did a day hike to Cactus Spring a few years ago and didn't find water there. I wasn't looking very hard though as I had plenty with me.

rockhopper, thanks for the info. I've camped by Horsethief creek, it's a nice area. I wish there was another water source further along the trail, but having reliable info on the state of the springs is half the battle.

I'm sure I'll do it again from the top end at some point, but next thing I want to try is visiting the Jack Miller cabin from the bottom end. I've never explored that area.

rockhopper wrote:

Looks like you covered a lot area on foot of that vastly in under explored place in our county. 45 miles. Wow! Good eye on the arrow points. The fact that the points were not made of the preferred obsidian means that most likely Lake Cahuilla was full thus covering the locals preferred obsidian source. Good point on the ranchers / miners building atop of older habitations. I've noticed that too.

Really like that area since it's so desolate and peaceful. That's a good observation about the alternative materials when Obsidian Butte was under water. Don't know if the obsidian hydration techniques are accurate enough to determine if all the obsidian artifacts around here dated to periods when the butte was exposed or whether it's already been looked at. Did find one obsidian point but pretty beat up.

Nice trip report and pictures! I'm catching up on all the activity, been oddly busy with work this past month or so. These posts are a great reminder that the desert will still be there.

rockhopper wrote:

Nice finds. Neat adventure Tommy! Were the camping circles on the benches above the ancient lake shore line? The multiple lake fills over the past 12,000 years ( At least 8 full fills but probably many more) supported large populations at various periods of lake fills. Lake fills may have lasted 50 years or more with constant inflows from the Colorado river. Population peak may have reached 10,000 around the lake. Those stone tools could be 1000 years old or 10,000 years old.

Was exploring around Ocotillo and SW of the Coyote Mts. Lots of reported Archaic sites in that area. The Park spent a lot of time last year excavating such a site near Carrizo. The history of early man in this area is quite fascinating. The earliest first man site in San Diego is probably beneath the fancy homes south of the La Jolla Beach and Tennis Club. Just finished reading this book on the subject and would definitely recommend it for those interested in the topic: https://sunbeltpublications.com/shop/first-people/

tommy750 wrote:

If you search "La Jolla Archaeological Area" or "Spindrift Archaeological District" you get a few hits on archaeology reports generated in association with La Jolla Shores area building permits. They're an interesting read. Here's a pic from Gallegos' book showing where the Spindrift site is located. Reported C14 dating of midden deposits is as far back as 9000 years before present with midden deposits 1-8 feet thick. The site has experienced continuous occupation over that extended period because who wouldn't want to live on Spindrift Drive?

W-1 Spindrift by tomteske, on Flickr

Ha-the house we are working on is in the middle of the lower red circle. Makes sense.

rockhopper wrote:

Nice rock art expedition Tommy. The whole Owens valley was a major corridor to the early peoples for thousands of years so there is a lot of rock art out there. Speaking of thousands of years, that obsidian point you found on the White mountains is probably very very old. That has been a dry mountain for a long time with only seasonal creeks from snow melt. Was it found near a seasonal creek drainage? btw Years ago, when we went up to the Bristle cone forest / White mountains we smoke the clutch on our Ford Ranger going up the top locked gate just shy of the 14,000 ft+ summit weather station. I probably walked over your arrow point.

I have read about the White Mtn Peak hike and the road going up to the trailhead. Didn't realize it was that steep.

rockhopper wrote:

Nice rock art expedition Tommy. The whole Owens valley was a major corridor to the early peoples for thousands of years so there is a lot of rock art out there. Speaking of thousands of years, that obsidian point you found on the White mountains is probably very very old. That has been a dry mountain for a long time with only seasonal creeks from snow melt. Was it found near a seasonal creek drainage? btw Years ago, when we went up to the Bristle cone forest / White mountains we smoke the clutch on our Ford Ranger going up the top locked gate just shy of the 14,000 ft+ summit weather station. I probably walked over your arrow point.

I found the point lying on the ground near where I took the BW bristlecone pic. Wasn't really near anything. Assuming the road to the research station used to be open?? Wow, that would have been a nice trip. Now the gate is at 11.7K and you've got a 15 mile 3K g/l hike ahead of you. I found out my Tundra had a transmission fluid temp idiot light going up Silver Canyon. Magically went away when I changed from 4-Hi to 4-Lo. Silver Canyon is the short cut from Bishop to the White Mts and is about a 6,200 feet climb in 9 miles with a 43% grade in places. Was about 100 degrees till above 8000 ft. Our camp site off the road had great views of the night sky but totally forgot about the comet. Need to check that out this weekend.

Some others on here who have spent more time in Rockhouse might be able to provide good directions for following the ancient trails.

I think Rockhouse is one of the places I have seen the highest concentration of fresh big cat prints.

Question for rockhopper or anyone else who visits Martinez Canyon:

Is there a source of info to find out if the gate at 68th and Van Buren is open or closed?
And if it's closed, is there any other access point for a vehicle to drive into the canyon?

Thanks.

Beautiful !! The old ramp to Villager.

Cahuilla trails run throughout RHV, to the Nicolias village then west down to the creek, past the funeral site and then further west towards the Santa Rosa Indian Reservation. Last week, I wanted to get into the middle of the storm so I hiked up to Old Santa Rosa, 5 hours from Hidden Spring, and spent the night in the snow. Beautiful. The trail from the first set of ruins to OSR follows a wash just past the last rockhouse. Or you can head over to the "Pottery Making Camp" which is at the base of the Santa Rosas where the old trail goes up and over the mountain to Martinez Canyon. There's a year round spring and nice little campsite at the PMC. Used by Indians, cattlemen, miners, hikers for centuries. Morteros nearby. Pottery shards. The descent into Martinez is rather un-Indian like-- it basically follows an arroyo that is, miraculously, for the east side of the Santa Rosas, pretty gentle. Found some painted pottery pieces along that route a few years back. From the PMC, the trail heads to Old Santa Rosa and from there it's about an hour to Nicolias, all on deeply rutted, well marked Indian trail. Mortero sites along the way as well as an occasional shard. That waterfall section you guys ran into is one of the most difficult parts of RHV! Ahhh, just thinking about RHV, I think I'll head back again this weekend.

In a recent thread about Rockhouse Valley, Zegna140 mentioned the book Old Time Cattlemen by Lester Reed. I've seen this mentioned a few places and have been meaning to check it out. I'm wondering what other books people here would recommend. I'm especially interested in the intersection of geography and history. Basically how people have used the remote sections of land we like to visit.

Books I already have include Afoot and Afield by Schad (several editions over the years), Anza Borrego Desert Region by Lindsay, Marshal South and the Ghost Mountain Chronicles, and The Historic Backcountry by Wray.

Thanks for the recommendations rockhopper. I remember seeing an announcement about a hike with one of Marshall South's sons that may have been the one you encountered. It was advertised as the last time he would go to Ghost Mountain (probably true since I think he has since passed on). I could have gone to that and I regret that I didn't.

rockhopper wrote:

Always had that one and Old Woman Mtn on my radar. Climbed the other "Granite Mtn" near Mitchel caverns near there. Similar granite boulders. Nice hike and great pics. Going down is a work out too! Hope you had good hiking poles.

Old Woman also on my radar. Long drive I think. Because there was so much hand and foot work, I left the poles behind.

The longer you carry your overnight gear and water, the longer you can delay the decision about where to camp or cache it for later. Don't carry it down anything you don't want to haul it back up

I am always surprised at the different amounts of water people go through for the same hike. Hiking together at the same time and pace some people need way more or way less water than others. I could believe 1qt on the right day.

Buford wrote:

Did you actually find the Corp BM? When I did 6582 a couple years ago we couldn't find the BM but didn't spend too much time looking. The rock art was easy enough to find.

The ridges in that area sure are steep.

I went right by the waypoint I had saved for Corp but I didn't look for it either. I was running low on water and ready to be done at that point.[/quote


Looks like your hiking poles were adjusted on full short during the ascent and full long during the decent. I would need to use my big horn sheep hiking skills on those slopes.
edited by rockhopper on 4/4/2021

rockhopper wrote:

Interesting seeing the other hikers out there. Actually kinda nice if your soloing.

Gary and I were out there from Thurs-Thurs that week and we only saw a single hiker on day 1 that was coming back from the lower rock houses. I looked out into the valley every day and never saw anyone, even at the top of the santa rosa ridgeline, I am surprised someone saw our packs. There were a lot of footprints in the main wash to the cottonwoods via the dry fall...many footprints.

tekewin wrote:

rockhopper wrote:

I would do DHeuschle's plan. If you absolutely want to do a sun rise on top of Rabbit, do a headlamp start under the stars or moon light closer to the summit. I day hiked Rabbit from the Barton canyon route on the East side with a climbing buddy. One quart of water each in the winter.

There are two bumps between Villager and Rabbit

Would there be a few spots in this section for tents?

Very nice trip! 58lbs! You have a great eye, I think I would have missed most of those petroglyphs. How far in before the old trail faded out?

I like it! Nice trip.

How is parking and trailhead access issues? No issues with leaving a car parked next to the fields? Whenever I have been over there I find too many gates shut and no clear places I would be comfortable leaving my car.

I have been told to put moth balls or Irish Spring bar soap in your engine compartment when you park.

Is the beginning of your route the same trail that would be used for the Barton Canyon approach to Rabbit?

Beautiful speckled rattlesnake. Was climbing a boulder near Otay Mtn. once and came face to face with one on a ledge, 2.5 feet away. Quickly downclimbed.

One was half dead and had to be flown out. The Coyote split and left those 3 . It was 110 when that picture was taken. No hats?

Matches are one of the 10 essentials that always should be carried. If you are lost or too tired to walk back, just light a big wild fire and you will be rescued.

dsefcik wrote:

Not west but pretty close...Thing Valley Rd / Morris Ranch Rd / Kitchen Creek / Cibbets area, this is the Descanso district.

You will need to obtain a free permit online from the forest service to be legal.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/cleveland/recreation/camping-cabins

You could hike anywhere during the day and camp in the CNF.

--

Thanks. I will check that area out. I went out Sat. from Pedro Fages monument to Middle Peak via the Ca riding and hiking trail. One thing is whatever satellite photos are currently on GE, it's way more choked now in the hills just south of the monument . I planned on just walking up some drainages to explore the hills but there was too much growth. Have to come back with pants. I did go up a dry fall and may have found a quasi-seasonal seep though-very wet mud near the top and lots of green-with plenty of game trails converging there.

rockhopper wrote:

Looks like our desert getting some much need rain. Regarding haboob winds. Saw a fellow campers dome tent ( no people in it but full of gear) take off and go rolling across the desert.

Wow rockhopper, was that recently / local?